a clash of religions. You still have not answered the question. Why does this art bother you so much? Let's not make it about Tim's art, but the art in general. What are you afraid of? A world war becasue of religion? Too late. That's been happening. Bottom line is you want censorship on YOUR term. Soemthing bothers you so lets get rid of it. You have nothing of value to add to this site or say in general, if you can't answer a simple question and keep assuming nobody gets the point. You have done nothing but bash the things that bother you the most. Well, since this is the last I'm going to say on this post (since it's obvious you aren't going to be honest).

#1 Heaven and hell are real.

#2 You don't have to believe in either, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

#3 There will be a final judgement.

#4 everyone WILL participate.

Jesus Christ is the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Jesus.

Go ahead and have your vote and push your agenda. Since you have nothing of value to say. I will no longer respond. A real man would just ignore this if he truely believed his convictions. My bet is you will respond and of course prove my point.

I will no longer reply to this post. May you find peace in your life, with the one true, everlasting God,
Jesus Christ.

I give up. You are clearly clearly too narrow minded to see beyond your own litle world. My only advice to you is to do some traveling and to try to broaden your horizon. Good luck!

Tsk tsk….touchy. You have a point regarding other wallpapers on this site not being KDE related. Maybe KDE-look should just scrap the wallpapers section since wallpapers are by their nature not KDE specific unlike styles, window decorations etc.
As for me saying “not appropriate” I said it would be MORE appropriate to post your work on a religious site where you will find more of your intended audience.
Secondly I suggested a vote on religious art (not just Christian) using your work as example, so I did suggest a vote on certain type of paper not just your work. Maybe this got lost in the translation since English is not my first language or you just didn’t read very carefully.
As for me telling the 200+ Believers here that they really don't count, that is nonsense. I suggested a vote so the “believers” will have every opportunity to express and register their opinion. (In Europe we call this democracy)
As for ignoring your work this is sadly no longer possible since it seems to have quite a negative effect on KDE-look. You only have to look at the latest postings and discussions to see what I mean. How long will it be before we will have a clash of religions on this site? In my opinion it would be best to keep religion and politics out of KDE-look. But again, since I am not the only user I am suggesting the democratic way: a vote.

"Touchy" can be very appropriate in a believer's life. And I get touchy around hypocrisy, which is very ugly.

You seem to want "Tolerance" but don't care to show it to those who don't share your views. That is an illustration of what hypocrisy is.

If you don't like it; pass it by! Vote it down!

Can you do that?

Tim

Hi Tim,

I understand you don't like my criticism and need to blow off some steam. That's okay. You write:

"You seem to want "Tolerance" but don't care to show it to those who don't share your views. That is an illustration of what hypocrisy is."

First of all: did you read my comment? You don't seem to get the point. Secondly: I am willing to accept any outcome of a vote, be it in agreement with my views or not. Is that hypocrisy? I get the impression that it is you who has a tollerance problem since you don't seem to be able to deal with criticism from others.

Why does Tim's art bother you so much? Is it so hard for you just to not use it and ignore it? I don't understand. as you said, "No one likes a pushy salesman". Is'nt the fact that you even suggested a vote pushing your idea? Who is the pushy salesman, Tim who is posting Christian Themed art, or you trying to get it removed? Scaping wallpapers completely? Would you push to have Tim's art removed if it were a theme with bible charactors as the icons? Or how about someone else who posted a theme with blood and guts, and a message of violence? Or one with flowers, having a message about save the planet? Or a theme with fish icons and wallpaper preaching save the whales? What makes Those senarios different from Tim's. They all run on KDE and they all have a message. WHich message don't you agree with? That's the one you want to remove. The flower people should post on a save the planet site? The fish people on a save the whales site? Gee, what fun would that be. I personally like the various postings. I don't agree with the ones that exploit women, so I don't use them. IF you hated the color green would you "vote" to have all walpapers with green removed. They should be posted on a site for green walpapers only? How radiculous! I personally think Tims art is coming along fine. Some of his wallpapers are quite good, and I resonate with the message. But all he is doing is using words from a book called the "bible". IF that offends you so much either those words are true and that "book" has you thinking you have some answering to do for the way you live your life. Or all historical writings offend you and you want to sensor them all!

I think you should read my comments again because your reply is completely beside the point.

I read your comments. I even quoted you. So are you goig to answer the questions posed. If yo can't, I understand.

To illustrate my previous comments:
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=8577

Yes, you did quote me although I would rather call it “copied and pasted” since the quote is out of context. As for answering your questions: the answers should be obvious if you have read my comments carefully. The fact that you still have to ask shows that you don’t get the point. I shall try one more time. The reason I think wallpapers with a religious or political message should not be posted on KDE-look is the fact that KDE-look is visited by people from all over the world, which means a lot of different cultural and religious backgrounds. Some of these people may be offended by certain texts that may seem harmless to you.
Another problem is the fact that we could end up with a clash of religions as people start up their own religious wallpapers in reaction to others. Someone already tried to upload a wallpaper with a satanic message in reaction to a wallpaper of Tim. (According to your philosophy this should be no problem though) Can you see where the scenario I am sketching would lead to? If you don’t I understand. Maybe you are to busy making sure you don’t have anything to answer for the way you live your life to read my comments carefully.
As for me being offend by historical writings..that is nonsense and not at all what I am getting at. I am not offended by the bible, koran (I have read both) or any other religious texts.

...and I leave you with whatever you wish to think.

Bye Flanders.

Tim

Fine. I think our opinions are clear. I hope the owners of this site put up a vote so we can see whether any of these opnions is shared by other kde-look users.

Hi Tim,
I an earlier comment I suggested it would be more appropriate for you to post your work on a Christian website instead of KDE-look as that is where your target audience, other believers, will be found. To this you replied:

“..and there are plenty of them here...and this is, after all, an open forum.”

First of all: yes this is an open forum, but for KDE art related subjects, not religion. Of course you are free to express your religious feelings and opinions, but I think this is not the right forum to do that.
Secondly you say there are plenty of believers here that are interested in your religious art. I personally think they will only represent a small fraction of the KDE-look users. Maybe it is time for a new poll on KDE-look. Do we, the KDE-look users, want to see religious art like Tim is posting on KDE-look or do we want KDE-look to remain a neutral place where people from all different cultural and religious backgrounds can find artwork for their KDE without being confronted by religious or political propaganda?

Doesn't anyone think it is getting terribly uninteresting to keep discussing "should they, shouldn't they, should they, shouldn't they"? KDE-Look has clearly never wanted to censor anything. Even for those who disagree with this artwork (disclaimer: I do agree with it, keep up the good work, Tim!) at least you don't have to worry about getting in trouble with a company's sexual harassment policy for viewing this at work... you might just get that with some of the other stuff here.

Now, as Tim asks below, there is the question of what is KDE artwork. This question has been asked here on KDE-Look so many times it just ain't funny. The majority of users have made it clear they don't want a site that only has artwork that has the KDE gear slapped on it (for that matter, this often leads to artwork that looks like it had a gear added to it just to be "KDEish").

This site has had anti-US wallpaper, anti-Microsoft wallpaper, etc. and no one complains. Someone below mentions that Tim doesn't give credit (which apparently is allowed by NASA, etc.). On the other hand, I don't see lots of people complaining when Apple's copyrighted icons and such get posted in huge collections. Where's the outrage? Where's the "get rid of this off KDE-Look" attitude then?

-Tim

censorship? From your postings, that is what you are aluding to. Why should Tim brown's work be censored? If you don't agree with the message placed in his work, don't use it. Yes, art work on KDE-Look.org with a Christian theme is a minority, but why should it be stopped? How about this as a vote. Anything that is not KDE should be banned. No Linux, NO Tux, No BSD!!!! Only KDE! And no message of any kind, NO favorite Color, No landscapes, No Images unless they are KDE. Here's a thought, why not just use window$ with a plain blue ugly backgroud. After all, that wouldn't offend anyone. Opps, I forgot the color blind. Sorry.

couldnt have said it better...

Thanks Alethia, you hit it on the nose.

Tim

Sorry Flanders... I don't agree with you either. The internet is built upon a free-speach paradigm and kdelook.org is no different. I for one was thrilled to see this kind of stuff here while I'm not so thrilled about the sexual content that occurs. So what do you say? Should we create one web site for Christian material, one for sexual content, one for wallpapers that include animals, etc??? But then you can't have just one web site for those topics either because then the homosexual crowd won't want heterosexual material and Tux won't want to be associated with the MSN butterfly. Do you see what I'm getting at? Wallpaper is wallpaper.... don't like it? Move on, or even better, try thinking about why your feelings are so strong towards this.

"try thinking about why your feelings are so strong towards this"

I guess its because I live in a densely populated country (The Netherlands) where people from many different cultural and religious backgrounds have to live peacefully together.........

if the netherlands can live like that, why can't kdelook?

*try thinking about why your feelings are so strong towards this.*

thanks; I'm glad you noticed this too.

Thanks for the support.

Tim

Hmmm.

Linuxbunny is kde related? Nude male pics are kde related? Tux is kde related? Just how do you define *KDE art*?

*Not appropriate*? According to whom?

...and it's a poll about *tim* and *his* art, not just a certain type of paper?

Sounds *tolerant* to me! SO much for accepting *all* cultural and religous backgrounds!

You know, I know a user here by the name of Soyburg (who oddly enough has used the word "Flanders" when messaging me...and I see you are a "brand new user"...go figure!). Anyway, HE said in a general discussion forum that people who don't like this work should just *ignore it*.

Don't you agree? I think that's what I've been doing with many things here.

By the way, I'll let you tell the 200+ Believers here that they *really don't count*.

Thanks,

Tim

...and it's a poll about *tim* and *his* art, not just a certain type of paper?

Damn, you are right. It is just about a certain type of wallpaper. Of which you are the most visible proponent of. I say skip Athens, skip the free will of the people. Rule Tim. Time be our saviour.

No seriously. You accused me of having posted under a different name (Flanders). So I tried to figure out what made you think so. And I looked at the persons most in favor of your posts and found some of the most eloquent ones to have joined here after you did. Which happened in the middle of August. I would never accuse you of using alter egos, but the fact that you did accuse me made me think.

Goodbye Soyburg...

Tim

You know, I know a user here by the name of Soyburg (who oddly enough has used the word "Flanders" when messaging me...and I see you are a "brand new user"...go figure!).

1.) You don't know me.

2.) I used the word "Flanders" because you behave exactly like the neighbour of Homer Simpson. Who is a charcter in a tv series I enjoy. (My nick here is Soyburg. Which is a bad spelled version of the name of the doctor in Futurama. Another series by Matt Groening.) Obviously others did get the same kind of impression about you.

3.) "Brand new user" and "go figure"... It seems you are implying that I made up an alter ego here. Which is complete and utter bullshit. If I ever I have anything to post in response to your stuff, it will bear my name (Soyburg). It is the nick I have posted under since I started posting on this site. I have no plans to discontinue this tradition. I am an atheist and a geologist and am simply offended by your posts for the following reasons

a) Religious content is as bad as political content. Do as you please but please stop and wonder when tomorrow 5 million hindus, buddhists, jews, taoists, muslims and north koreans will start posting their stuff. I simply think that you are setting a bad example. And continue to do so. Those people posting sexual content are not to my gusto either. But they usually stop after two or three posts. And you and I know that you are on a misison from god, so no stopping to be expected anytime soon from you.

b) I do not really care for your wallpapers on an artistic level. I think most of them are poorly made. A good example for what I mean is your first wallpaper in this post. The blue one. It is poorly done in my opinion. It reminds me of the early 80s, when computer graphics sucked. Which makes me wonder why you put this up here and whether you are spending more time thinking about the right quote than about he right graphics. You did some pretty good ones though. Job's hydrology (or whatever the title) was a good one in my opinion. Maybe you took more time for that one. Please continue to do so.

c) You keep denying scientific facts. Not once or twice but continuously. You deny evolution, you deny the age of our planet and you are resistant to any kind of link I send you which represents the findings of the vast majority of scientists. (And when I say vast I mean vast.) Which means that you do not only offend me on a religious (difficult cause I have none) level, but also on an intellectual and scientific one. You show no signs of ever having studied a science and keep quoting the bible to ensure me that yours is the right view. And you keep pointing to obnoxious pseudo-archeological discoveries to back up your point. To sum it up: You insult my intellect.

d) What I especially do not like about your posts is that you never give due credit. You find something (which took hard work to create from someone) in the public domain and put some quote on it. You do not _ever_ give dues or links to the persons who created the images you use. This post is a fine example for that. It's true that you do not need to do so (according to Stanford's and NASA's copyright notice) but they make the request that they be mentioned. Which in my opinion is a reasonable request. Which you do not honor. That is in my opinion not illegal but poor style. Maybe some time in the future you will create something genuine and somebody whom you don't agree with slaps his quote onto it without mentioning you. Maybe you'll understand then.

e) You say that you clearly mark you posts to be religious or christian or whatever it is that they are. Please take the time to click on this post in the main view of the website. Please think about how long one will have to read on to the _third_ paragraph where you mention that this is for other believers and then think how long the usual visitor will take to just click on the preview (which is probably what most visitors do). I'd say it is not clearly labeled. Do so and I will shut up. (Except when you start to deny modern science which you frequently do).

4.) The fact that you suspected me of posting under an alter ego is exactly what Stalin and Chruschchow (whatever the spelling may be) experienced during their stay in power. It is called paranoia. So I guess there is hope.