Fellowship of the Unashamed

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"Fellowship of the Unashamed"

"Out of Africa comes a story of bravery and boldness in Christ that we in America need to hear. There was an young African pastor who was caught in the struggle between an Islamic rebel force and the existing government of his nation. When his village was overwhelmed by rebels, they demanded that he renounce his faith. He refused. The night before they took his life, he wrote the following lines on a scrap of paper:"


"I am part of the "Fellowship of the Unashamed." I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast. I've stepped over the line. The decision has been made. I am a disciple of His. I won't look back, let up, slow down, back away, or be still. My past is redeemed, my present makes sense, and my future is secure. I am finished and done with low living, sight walking, small planning, smooth knees, colorless dreams, tame visions, mundane talking, chintzy giving, and dwarfed goals!

I no longer need preeminence, prosperity, position, promotions, plaudits, or popularity. I don't have to be right, first, tops, recognized, praised, regarded, or rewarded. I now live by presence, lean by faith, love by patience, lift by prayer, and labor by power.

My face is set, my gait is fast, my goal is heaven, my road is narrow, my way is rough, my companions few, my Guide reliable, my mission clear. I cannot be bought , compromised, detoured, lured away, turned back, diluted, or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice, hesitate in the presence of adversity, negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity, or meander in the maze of mediocrity.

I won't give up, shut up, let up, or burn up till I've preached up, prayed up, paid up, stored up, and stayed up for the cause of Christ.

I am a disciple of Jesus. I must go till He comes, give till I drop, preach till all know, and work till He stops. And when He comes to get His own, He'll have no problems recognizing me. My colors will be clear."
Last changelog:

16 years ago

Added third (transparent) paper.

alethia

16 years ago

I think "everyone" needs to grow up. The arguments back and forth seem to be "the battle of who is more enlightened". What a Joke. Believe what you want. Just because you believe it, doesn't make it correct.

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timbrown527

16 years ago

*mental note*

Next time something like this starts, delete the entry and reenter it to clear the thread...

*end mental note*

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Flanders

16 years ago

Just "delete the entry" will do nicely.

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masterpikx

16 years ago

how can this wallpaper offend those with Islamic background? I dont see anything that is against them. Everybody should be free to upload as long as it is not a direct attack to anyone.

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Flanders

16 years ago

"how can this wallpaper offend those with Islamic background?"

Simple: the text seems to reinforce the "bad guy" stereotype of Islam that is sadly on the increase.

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Linuster

16 years ago

Bear in mind that Tim was setting the context of the poem. Without the context it doesn't have the same meaning.

True, the comments, not the wallpaper, probably do reinforce the stereotype of Muslums as "bad guys." However, the general population will always accept stereotypes anyway, because they never undertake that Socratean exercise of examining their own lives. For the rest of us, all it would take is a cursory reading of the Koran to know that, for the most part, it shares the same moral dicates of the Bible (mercy, repaying evil with good, etc). People all over the world share a basic moral code. For example, in Japan stealing is looked down upon. This is not because the Japanese honor the Ten Commandments, but because they honor the unwritten principles that preceeded the "Ten Commandments." Leading Christian theologians, like the Apostle Paul (c.f. Rom 2:14-15) and C.S. Lewis have always recognized this.

I am supplementing, not contradicting you.

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timbrown527

16 years ago

Yup. You are referring to Paul's statement that "the law is written" by God on the heart (vs. 15). Thanks for recognizing that.

Furthermore, whether or not the text perpetuates a stereotype, that doesn't render it invalid. I realize that there maybe most (I don't know all of them!) followers of Islam are perfectly nice people. As I have mentioned before I listen very frequently to Ravi Zacharias (who you may have heard of even if you are not a Christian) who has testified to this repeatedly...and I believe him.

However, there are also those who DO kill those who refuse to convert or have chosen to convert from Islam to Christianity. I have an Iranian Jewish friend who fled Iran because of such as this. He didn't convert, rather he was born as an Iranian Jew.

The Rutherford institute reports (and I can give you the link) that Coptic believers...even young children...are being crucified even today...simply because of what they believe.

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that the idea is that one should not say something that might perpetuate a stereotype, even if that statement might be true.

If that is the case, then I reject it.

Thanks for the insight. I appreciate it!

Tim

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gtg990h

16 years ago

Your logic is faulty. A stereotype is something applied generally to an entire group of people. Unless you're willing to say that "muslims are (mostly) bad people" then the stereotype is not true. By your own admission, you say that your post may be propogating this stereotype. Since this stereotype is not true, you are propogating a lie.

There are bad people in every religion. Christianity has more than its share of evils done in its name. There is no point in attributing these evils to good people, which is what your poem does.

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timbrown527

16 years ago

You know, anything a person says or does can feed a stereotype that others hold regardless of whether or not the person in question holds the stereotype.

You can't read many of the threads related to my paper without noticing stereotypes about Christianity...which imply that we go around forcing conversions at the point of a gun. And you know, some people might say I'm feeding it because I'm "pushing (in some mystical way) my beliefs" on others.

I may do things that feed a given stereotype held by others. But I don't believe that, on it's face, makes what I (or anyone else) do or say *wrong* in and of itself. If I did, I'd be telling others to "shut up", etc. Besides, I firmly believe that a given individual is responsible for holding stereotypes.

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timbrown527

16 years ago

I believe that most adherants to Islam are decent people. That doesn't mean that they aren't stereotyped by others. I think alot of Americans do, in fact, have a stereotypical view of Islam.

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jukkamy

16 years ago

Because so many have choosed to attack you constantly, I wanted to share this with you and everybody else in the same situation:

"Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing."

1 Peter 3:9

-Jukka

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timbrown527

16 years ago

Hi Jukka and thanks!

Tim

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Flanders

16 years ago

Hi Tim,

This is exactly why I urge you to post your wallpapers somewhere more appropriate like a Christian site where you will find your target audience. Not the wallpaper it self but the accompanying text can (and probably will) be offending to other visitors, especially those with an Islamic background. We don’t need a clash of religions on this site.

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masterpikx

16 years ago

i really dont like the wallpaper...but i like the message. now its my wallpaper

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timbrown527

16 years ago

That's ok, the message is the most important part anyway...:)

Thanks!
Tim

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timPLEZdrown527

16 years ago

"There will be a final judgement!
Eveyone will participate, wheather they believe or not!"

Yeah see, our religious opinions are FACT, simply because we accept them as FACT. You are supposed to pretend along with us that they are FACT. Anyone who does not participate with us in the pretense that our religious opinions are FACTS, are simply being intolerant. Further, you should ignore Miss Manners completely, when she says to not offer your opinions, of any kind, unless asked.

And yes, there will be final judgement. You either worship the Ancient Bronze Age God of the Hebrew goat herders, or you end up in hell. Just like when the mafia says, you either pay us protection money or we break your mother's legs. God is so powerful these are the methods He has to resort to.

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timbrown527

16 years ago

It's not true because we believe it (that's New Age/Postmodern nonsense), we believe it because it is true.

Contrary to the example of nonsense faith, Christianity is open to verification through biblical and non-biblical historical accounts as well as archaeology.If you want to disprove the Bible and the Christian faith, that's where to go...but eventually you will have to deal with the secular historical accounts of the fact that Christ lived, died and yet three days later was seen as a risen Lord.

Noone has been able to do that in 2000 years. make a name for yourself; be the first.

Thanks,

Tim

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timPLEZdrown527

16 years ago

1. You can not prove a negative.
2. There are no non-bibical historical accounts, nor archeology, that proves the myth you believe is true. Go to the library. What section is the Bible found in? The history section? I think not, as the history contained in the Bible is wholly & completely inaccurate. So it is placed in the religion section, along with the other myths, where it belongs. Were the history contained in the Bible factual, you would find it in the history section.
3. You say you believe it because it is true. Do you also take slaves from surrounding nations, as god tells you to in your Bible? Will you sell your daughters into slavery, as your god tells you to in your Bible? Do you stone adulterers, as god tells you to in your Bible? Must women not speak in your church, as Paul said, in your Bible? That's right. I didn't think so. Now please find some other forum to spread your propoganda.

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timbrown527

16 years ago

*can't prove*

Well, then as I posted elsewhere here, can you prove George Washington really lived? Was he a myth? What about Lincoln, or J.Q. Adams?

Once you discount historical/legal *evidence* you enter an intellectual-free zone where you can ultimately *know nothing*.

Are you saying this is the case?

Again, archaelogy silenced the critics about King David of the Old testament really living (another 'myth' is now known to be true). The same for King Solomon. Does this make one bit of difference?

They used to criticize the accuracy of the book of Isaiah up till a number of decades ago when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found and dated to be from the time that Isaiah actually lived....they demonstrated that the Old Testament we have now is virtually unchanged. So much for "transmission errors". Not one major teaching is effected...only a preposition here and there. Minor stuff. There are 24,000+ manuscripts for the scriptures, including fragments. Homer's illiad doesn't have more than maybe 600 but no one questions the Illyad.

Again, as I've stated before, could it be that you really know better but simply refuse to face it? No, I'm not talking "proof" because "...without faith it is *impossible* to please God* (Hebrews 11:6) But there is ample evidence upon which to make an *intelligent* decision...provided PRIDE doesn't get in the way.

Tim

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timPLEZdrown527

16 years ago

"archaelogy silenced the critics about King David of the Old testament really living"

According to who? What was the name of the archeologists who did this? Where did this information come from? Who is the author of this information? In what book did you find this? Oh that's right, you simply pulled this statement out of your behind, as you do on all of your wallpapers. How foolish of me to expect you to support a statement you make with facts.

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timbrown527

16 years ago

Sure! I'll be happy to do that for you. I'll have to look it up though; I don't have the information on hand. All I can give you right now was that the person who made the discovery regarding King David was Avraham Biran. I think this was in 1993, but I'll have to check.

Same for the others. But, again, I'll be happy to!

Tim

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timPLEZdrown527

16 years ago

Provide a piece of historical or archeological evidence that Jesus existed. Oh that's right. You can't. There is none. There is much archeological and historical evidence for the existence of Lincoln or Washington, so we know for a fact they lived.

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Linuster

16 years ago

And I suppose there is no evidence that Herod lived, or a Pharoah (because they're in the Bible), or that the Jews even existed.

Come on, get some education. No historian today disputes the fact that Jesus lived. What they dispute is whether or not the Gospels portray him accurately. Even Thomas Jefferson, a deist, believed the EXISTANCE of Jesus.

And the Bible is not entirely a 'religious myth.' Pick up a decent secular book on world civilization, and you will read that much of the Bible lines up with secular history. Historians only challenge its supernatural claims.

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timPLEZdrown527

16 years ago

"I so often hear of scientists who say that a denial of the theory of evolution is 'absurd."

That's because a denial of the theory of evolution is absurd. The mountain of evidence supporting evolution can not be overturned and underpins the majority of the sciences, including biology & geology, whereas the only evidence for supporting creationism is a book of fable that claims snakes and donkeys speak:

1. Numbers 21:28 "And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? "

2. Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

And what is the definition of the word
fable? According to Merriam-Websters it is as follows:

"a narration intended to enforce a useful truth; especially : ONE IN WHICH ANIMALS SPEAK AND ACT LIKE HUMAN BEINGS"

So yes, any scientist who believes creationism is absurd, by definition, and are denying well over a century of collected evidence which supports the theory of evolution. Think about it, if a scientist denied the theory of gravity, is that absurd? Of course it is. If a scientist denies the theory of electricity is that absurd? Of course it is. It is even moreso absurd when you realize the entire basis for their denial of these theories is based entirely on a book of fable, that totally destroys the facts of history left and right, as when Daniel errs in the succession of Persian kings.

No one here has yet to offer any evidence that Jesus ever even existed. I mean he was this great miracle worker, so where is the evidence for his existence in the archeological record? There should be MUCH evidence in the archeological record for his existence, given the miraculous things he did, yet such evidence does not exist, in the same way it does not exist for Buddha feeding a multitude of people with a basket of cakes. Further, you claim, "But the majority of historians are not denying the existance of Jesus, or Mohammad, or Buddha."

Where? Who? What are their names? Do you have a study to support this? No, I didn't think so. You can not change the fact that the ancient historians did not investigate the gossip that they heard, they simply wrote the gossip down as true. But I forget, you know more than the scholars who have actually investigated the claims of the ancient historians and found them to lack credibility.

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Linuster

16 years ago

"And finally, please do explain how... requiring others to offer evidence to support their claims, is a game?"

It isn't a game. What I refered to as a "game" was your requiring me to offer evidence for a claim I did not make, namely that the Slaughter of Innocents really occured.

"The historians who recorded history at the time of Christ, had little interest in recording facts of history...."

Eusebias didn't live "at the time of Christ". He wrote after the Council of Nicea, in the time of Constantine.

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16 years ago

Added third (transparent) paper.

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